Notify me of follow-up comments by email. You just don’t know the material well enough to avoid basic errors like this one. 2. It would be wonderful if the debate was between “Orthodox” Christianity, and actual “rational” atheists, but this is not to be. By that stage a lot of the earlier variants were quite small and many others had ceased to exist. There are about five different hypothesis as to who this person may have been, but given the highly generic nature of the name – θεόφιλος, “friend of God”, “beloved by God” – I’d say it’s most likely the author’s way of addressing a hypothetical ideal reader. There is no reason to think it didn’t happen. the actions of Pol Pot, Stalin, etc, are a long way from the ideals of socialism) and probably other movements as well. Mais ceci peut être fait. L’empereur Néron a commencé cette tendance en 64 après JC , quand il a pris des disciples de l’Évangile du premier siècle, les a attaché et fait plongé dans de l’huile pour ensuite être brûlés vivant comme des torches humaines pour l’éclairage dans son jardin du palais! Just adding my 2c to say I can't wait for the book. Vous ne mentionnez rien au sujet de ces autres textes que l’on connaît aujourd’hui : les évangiles apocryphes. Tout comme les quatre évangiles, ces lettres étaient contemporaines des apôtres, puisqu’elles viennent d’eux. Ok, but what about what Christian scholar Dr. Dowdwell says? Why would any non-ideologue care enough to get into politics. None of your “factors” stands up to scrutiny. The key purpose of the Council, however, was the resolution of the Arian Controversy over the status of Jesus as “God the Son” in relation to “God the Father” in the doctrine of the Trinity. I still believed Jesus was a historical figure, that the NT was composed by the early Church in the late 1st/early 2nd centuries, and that belief in the Resurrection arose within a few years of the events. Power corrupts and tends to draw people in who want the power without the ideology, and that is certainly true (I believe) of christianity through 17 centuries of "Christendom", but also true of socialism (e.g. Il convoque ainsi un grand concile, en 325, qui se réunit à … Wrong. It seems the status of the Trullan Council or Quinisext Council was debated in the west and that, overall, it was not regarded as a true "Ecumenical Council" and therefore not binding on Christendom overall. Les écrits d’Athanase sont également conservés. Christianity did not start out as a unified movement. I’m reminded of an old Dutch proverb: fire engine nr. If my hypothesis is correct, then the different councils might have had more impact on editing and compiling the synoptic Gospels than originally thought. So the central historical claim in the meme is total and complete garbage, but if that’s so, where did the myth come from? How the Biblical Canon Actually Developed Pour l’essentiel, l’établissement du canon du Nouveau Testament a été achevé bien avant Constantin et bien avant que son Église ait accédé au pouvoir. Celui qui tient compte des … years with no monarchy. Ces récits relatent-ils exactement ce que Jésus a dit et fait au cours de son dernier repas avec ses disciples ? Call me naive – I think it’s anti-atheist. Avant son règne, la plupart des empereurs romains étaient ouvertement hostiles à l’Évangile. Dans le même temps, Maximin Daïa, César en Orient, refuse d'accepter que Licinius tout juste nommé Auguste lui soit hiérarchiquement supérieur. This ninth century miracle story is only found in this one work and is not referenced in any earlier material on the Council of Nicaea. La bible je le dis et redis et repete a ete et est un instrument politique et religieux mis sur pied pour dominer les humains cest un outil de manipulation et de conspiration…je le dis et je le redis encore Dieu en effet existe j’ai foi en ce Dieu là,qui créa la nature le ciel et la terre le jour et la nuit les saisons mais votre Dieu des hommes cest a dire de vos religions je ny crois pas.S’il faille qu’un jour croire à une religion je croirai a une religion on est tous egaux et freres ou le spirituel ne se melangera pas au materiel où les lois de l’amour et du libre arbitre seront respectés par tous!merci! This work became available in western Europe in the early seventeenth century and so seems to be where whole story came from. A vast majority of atheists, if they believed what is written here, if they did not believe that Constantine created the Bible, that Jesus wasn’t a “myth”, and that no person believed that Jesus rose from the dead, until they aggrandized his story several decades and centuries later, there would be almost no atheists in America. Finally Britain became a republic under leadership of Oliver Cromwell for 11 “how you can know for sure that the memoirs he mentions are actually referring to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John because, as you said in your article, there were so many different works floating around at the time that called themselves Gospels”. Des livres populaires et des films tels que le Da Vinci Code dépeignent Constantin comme l’empereur romain qui, fondamentalement, a inventé l’Évangile pour ses propres fins politiques. For example, a passage in Matthew has Jesus saying, “Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.” This might allude to Matthew being a Roman Catholic Gospel, written after the beginning of the establishment of this hierarchy to uphold the supremacy of the Petrine Church of Rome. Tout comme les barnacles qui s’ammassent sur la coque d’un navire peut fausser l’hydrodynamique d’une quille simplifié – et doivent être enlevés pour que le navire puisse retrouver sa capacité de se déplacer avec grâce dans l’eau – donc beaucoup du christianisme qui s’est développé depuis Constantin pourrait avoir besoin d’être gratté afin que nous puissions accéder l’évangile pur. Thus another great victory has been won for “rationalism” and “free thought”. Vous avez dit:” si Constantin le grand avait altéré la boble certains manuscrits trouve plus tard le montreraient”. I was reading the comments on this article, and as one of them mentions the confrontation between Emperor Theodosius and Ambrosius of Milan, I wanted to ask what you think about this episode? Hi Tim, How can we know? I tend to agree with the Constantine hijacking idea, not necessarily as his deliberate intention, but simply because christianity, like any ideology, is safer when not allied with political power. Christianity “started out” as a Jewish sect focused on the idea that Jesus was the Messiah. It developed from there and, yes, developed into many and various forms. Still what people say about Nicea does feel much more accurate when said about Ephesus or the 5th Council. … Ou nous pouvons décider de l’adopter. Qu'est-ce qu'ils enseignent? …. I don’t think it’s possible to have politics without ideologues. Possibly this is a source of some confusion. But the ultimate source seems to be an anonymous medieval Byzantine work, the Vetus Synodikon , which gave an account of the major synods and councils of the Church up to around 887 AD. an asscrank …. Ok, so I’ve done a little bit more research since our last chat and I found this quote “The very names of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are never mentioned by him [Justin]—do not occur once in all his writings.”. You can also subscribe without commenting. So not only did the process of deciding the canon begin long before Constantine, there was still debate within the Church about the canon in his time. Le Nouveau Testament (en grec ancien : Ἡ Καινὴ Διαθήκη / Hê Kainề Diathếkê) est l'ensemble des écrits relatifs à la vie de Jésus et à l'enseignement de ses premiers disciples qui ont été reconnus comme « canoniques » par les autorités chrétiennes au terme d'un processus de plusieurs siècles. The Origin of the Myth Mais vous savez qu’au dela de ça, le concil de nicée a corrompu beaucoup de points que vous ignorez expressement. How's the book going? Étudiez de plus près le concil de Costantinopole et de Nice.Aussi comparez les traductions bibliques avec les textes originaux en ancien hébreux. Interesting article and discussion. People don’t get talked into being atheists based on bad history. He then imposed much more uniformity, but you are overstating the diversity of forms in the early fourth century. Lettres et discours, Paris, Les Belles Lettres, 2010, 306 p. L ; 3 À cet égard, la publication récente d’une quarantaine de lettres et de trois discours de Constantin le Grand par Pierre Maraval3 ouvre de nouvelles perspectives. François-Marie Arouet (1694–1778), better known by his nom-de-plume “Voltaire”, is still justly famous for his wit, his erudition and for his attacks on the established position of the Catholic Church in the France of his day and his advocacy of freedom of religion and the separation of Church and State. L’empereur Néron a commencé cette tendance en 64 après JC , quand il a pris des disciples de l’Évangile du premier siècle, les a attaché et fait plongé dans de l’huile pour ensuite être brûlés vivant comme des torches humaines pour l’éclairage dans son jardin du palais! Au fil des années, on m’a demandé assez souvent sur Constantin . La vérité sera surprenante mais vous verrez la preuve irréfutable que la Bible qu’on lit aujourd’hui a été modifié. This row actually had echoes down church history, because the filioque clause in the Creed which triggered the schism between Roman Catholic and orthodox churches in 1054, originally came from an attempt in 6th Century Spain to defend the Trinitarian position against Arianism, which had remained popular in Northern Europe. In 1751, New Testament theologian Johann Jakob Wettstein knew of only 23 uncial codices of the New Testament. The Myth of the Biblical Canon at Nicaea C’est l’Église des martyrs, et non l’Église des puissants, qui nous a légué le Nouveau Testament. Also, given the growing popularity of the various Jesus cults, what other options were realistic? Pourtant, est-ce que ce sont les “mauvaises” évangiles qui ont été choisis pour être incluse dans la Bible à ce point? It certainly formed a key plot element in the schlock pseudo historical thriller The Da Vinci Code (2003) and in its film adaptation in 2006. This is crackpot stuff. Thanks Tim for some good information. Comme nous l’avons vu dans l’article sur la fiabilité de la Bible, il y a beaucoup de manuscrits aujourd’hui qui viennent de jusqu’à deux cents ans avant l’époque de Constantin (et le Concile de Nicée). They are just fanatics who post whatever tickles their emotional and irrational prejudices. Fact Checking Memes? Required fields are marked *. Ceci montre bien que l'histoire du Nouveau Testament n'a aucune réalité historique et a été construite et pensée pour répondre à l'Ancien Testament qui n'est lui-même qu'un tissu de légendes. So we can confidently say that your favourite Facebook group are even bigger crackpots. je veux votre adresse electronique puisque je vous avez exigé la mienne. Il y a beaucoup de fausse information et de rumeurs qui circulent autour de lui . Vous oubliez (volontairement ?) 225 Nouveau Testament: OpenText.org (web-based initiative to provide an annotated corpus of Greek texts and tools for their analysis): Westcott & Hort Resource Centre: Decker (Rodney J. en vrai philosophe constastin?? Novum Testamentum Graece Nouveau Testament Novum Testamentum Graece AKA The Greek New Testament Novum Testamentum Graece is the Nestle Aland standard edition of the New Testament in Greek with cross references to many different codex and papyrus "witnesses" for every verse, phrase or word, where those differ between texts. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. La Bible est un mystère aux yeux des hommes,pour en décrypter on doit se detacher de l’humanité pour raprocher de la divinitè.l’homme doit devenir Dieu pour découvrir tous les secrets de la bible. Le Nouveau testament est composé également des lettres, ou épitres, que les apôtres envoyèrent aux congrégations. And it also seems that recent works, whether they were “heretical” (like the Gnostic gospels) or not (like The Shepherd of Hermas), did not have the status of works from the earliest years of Christianity. of recent bishops to the ranks of cardinals in Rome. Constantin I cel Mare s-a născut la Naissus, în provincia romană Moesia Superior, fiind fiul generalului Constantius Chlorus (viitorul împărat Constantius I) și al Helenei., Tatăl său, Constantius Chlorus, în 271-272, sub împăratul Aurelian, a fost membru al protectores (militari superiori în slujba împăratului) în estul Imperiului Roman, iar ulterior a ajuns tribun. Ignatius of Antioch quotes from gMatt, gLuke and Acts and he died c. 110 AD. Mais l’Évangile n’est pas à propos de la culture ou du pouvoir du gouvernement. En 325 après JC, Constantin a convoqué le concile de Nicée, la première réunion de l’empire à l’échelle de dirigeants de l’Église pour discuter de diverses controverses. However, most Americans (especially atheist Americans), are utterly historically illiterate, and they base conclusions on their historical illiteracy. Au cours de ces campagnes, il se convertit au christianisme (du paganisme). Probably to signify that they define hopefully core, binding doctrines. Constantin a eu un impact énorme sur le développement du christianisme. Est-ce vrai? Entrez votre adresse email pour vous abonner à ce blog et recevoir les notifications des nouveaux articles par courriel. stupid …. Tim O’Neill’s forthright blog does a valuable job in keeping us all honest, and reminding us that historical evidence rarely behaves as one might want it to.” – Professor Tim Whitmarsh, A. G. Leventis Professor of Greek Culture at the University of Cambridge, “A brilliantly erudite blog that stands sentinel against the wish-fulfilment and tendentiousness to which atheists, on occasion, can be no less prey than believers” – Tom Holland, best-selling history writer, “Tim O’Neill’s blog is a fantastic place to turn for critical investigation of commonly-held assumptions about religion in the ancient world.” – Professor James F. McGrath, Butler University, “Tim O’Neill is a known liar …. The New Atheist ideologues at “Philosophical Atheism” don’t care about facts, reason, logic or scepticism. Eusèbe de Césarée et le canon du Nouveau Testament - Didascale After all, the meme’s bizarre grammar and reference to “Black Ankhwakening” – a crackpot Afrocentrist/Black Revisionist group – should have been a signal that this needed to be checked carefully. C. Tischendorf distingue quatre scribes différents qui auraient travaillé à ce manuscrit. If it was just one factor by itself, it could be dismissed. Actually, given he didn’t just have Ambrose beheaded, I suspect he took his religious beliefs seriously. For Marcion, this distinction was absolute: the coming of Jesus made the whole of the Jewish Law and Jewish Scriptures redundant and the ‘God’ of the Jews was actually quite different to the God preached by Jesus. L’empereur Constantin et la Bible. The relevance for “philosophical atheism” of the question who actually put together the NT is beyond my understanding. Il y a des discours, des récits, des poèmes. A few of those who are devoted to the whole “Constantine created the Bible” myth have been forced to admit that there is no direct evidence linking the Council of Nicaea to the formation of the canon, so they cling to two pieces of evidence to try to salvage the idea. Le nouveau testament de Sacha Guitry (texte complet) - Duration: 1:56:47. Le témoignage Juif: le fils d'une vierge venant de la lignée de David? Est-ce que Constantin a corrompu l’Évangile et la Bible? I am wondering how you can be so confident of the effect of something that didn’t happen?

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